Ep 37 - Beyond the Brain: Anxiety, Hormones & Healing with Dr. Nicole Cain - Part 1

Ep 37 Part 1

If you’ve been struggling with anxiety, burnout, mood swings, or fatigue — and you’ve prayed, journaled, and “done the work” but still feel off — this episode is for you.

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Nicole Cain, a holistic doctor and mental health expert, reveals how your gut health, hormones, and nervous system play a major role in your emotional well-being. You’ll learn how your body and brain are deeply connected — and how healing isn’t just mental, it’s biological.

💡 What You’ll Learn:

•The science behind the gut-brain connection

•How hormonal imbalances can trigger anxiety and stress

•Natural, research-based ways to support mood, sleep, and peace of mind

•How understanding your body can help you align with your true purpose

•Why holistic health is about wholeness — not “woo-woo”

This isn’t New Age — it’s neuroscience, psychology, and holistic medicine working together to help you understand how God designed your body for healing. 🌿

If you want to overcome anxiety naturally, balance your hormones, and finally feel like yourself again, hit play — and discover what’s truly happening beyond the brain.

(We Apologize for some cracking in the sound) 

Transcript

Truth Seeker's Guide (00:01.728)


Welcome to the True Seekers Guide. I'm your host, Felipe. And today we're diving into a subject that impacts so many of us, anxiety. But not just a surface level anxiety that we often hear about. We're gonna talk about the deeper hidden roots, how our gut, hormones, and nervous system shape the way that we experience panic, fear, even peace. My guest today is Dr. Nicole Kane, a naturopathic doctor, clinical psychologist, and author of the incredible book, Panic Proof.

Dr. Kane is pioneering a holistic approach to anxiety, one that doesn't just ask, how do I control my thoughts, but instead, how do I teach my body how to feel safe? In this conversation, we'll explore why your gut may be fueling your anxiety, how hormones like cortisol or thyroid play a role, and what it actually looks like to retain your nervous system so panic doesn't run your life.

So whether you've experienced panic yourself or you know someone that you love who struggles, promise this episode will give you both practical tools and a refreshing new perspective on what anxiety really is. All right. All right. So welcome, Dr. Nicole. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. thank you. Thank you for coming. And well, I was just going to jump right in.

Dr. Nicole Cain (01:27.82)
I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Nicole Cain (03:11.051)
You know, it all started with trying to prove a system wrong. I don't know if you would all relate to this, but I grew up in the culture where if you were feeling big emotions, you either just suppress it and go forward, or if it's bad enough, you go to a doctor and then that doctor will give you a medication to suppress it, to fix it. And so for me,

Truth Seeker's Guide (03:17.092)
I know if you would all relate to this, but I grew up in the culture where if you were feeling big emotions, you either just suppress it and go forward, or if it's bad enough, you go to a doctor.

and then that doctor will give you a medication to suppress it, to fix it. And so for me, having anxiety or depression or panic or worry or whatever it was, was a sign that I was out of control, that I couldn't control myself and I was broken.

Dr. Nicole Cain (03:38.22)
having anxiety or depression or panic or worry or whatever it was was a sign that I was out of control, that I couldn't control myself and I was broken. But that didn't make sense when it came to other things. For example, I loved studying first aid kits and I remember being in third grade and going to the library in my elementary school.

Truth Seeker's Guide (03:52.114)
But that didn't make sense when it came to other things. For example, I loved studying first aid kits and I remember being in third grade and going to the library in my elementary school and reading about first aid, which I feel like is, you know, looking back at it now, I'm in my forties, I'm like, that's so odd. Like, what's the whole story around that? But that was true.

Dr. Nicole Cain (04:05.969)
and reading about first aid, which I feel like is, you know, looking back at it now, I'm in my 40s, I'm like, that's so odd. Like, what's the whole story around that? But that was true. And I made a little fanny pack and I had this cute little fanny pack with bandages and neo sporn cream. And any time that somebody got a little scratch or got hurt, I could put that cream on there and I could feel like I'm helping and making a difference. And the body would heal that.

Truth Seeker's Guide (04:17.25)
And I made a little fanny pack and I had this cute little fanny pack with bandages and neo sporn cream. anytime that somebody got a little scratch or got hurt, I could put that cream on there and I could feel like I'm helping and making a difference. And the body would heal that.

Dr. Nicole Cain (04:36.481)
And then of course, as I get older and I start to think about things from more of a critical eye, and I'm developing more concerning health conditions, I find that the way that my doctors approached, if I have asthma or allergies, it was a really different conversation versus anxiety or depression. It was really marginalized in my culture where I came from.

Truth Seeker's Guide (04:36.914)
And then of course, as I get older and I start to think about things from more of a critical eye, and I'm developing more concerning health conditions, I find that the way that my doctors approached, if I have asthma or allergies, it was a really different conversation versus anxiety or depression. It was really marginalized in my culture where I came from.

Dr. Nicole Cain (05:02.035)
And it didn't make sense. Why can someone fall off their bike, skin their knee, have all this road rash on their knee, can be bleeding and really, really grotesque, and that can heal. But anxiety is a life sentence. It didn't make sense to me. And even if today we get on MD Consul or any other leading organization's website and we just simply ask, well, what is anxiety?

Truth Seeker's Guide (05:02.349)
And it didn't make sense. Why can someone fall off their bike, skin their knee, have all this road rash on their knee, can be bleeding and really, really grotesque, and that can heal, but anxiety is a life sentence. It didn't make sense to me.

And even if today we get on MD Consul or any other leading organization's website and we just simply ask, what is anxiety? It will say, well, it's a part of the human condition. You just kind of have to live with it or manage it. And the research doesn't actually back that up. And the creation of panic proof came out of a curiosity that then became

Dr. Nicole Cain (05:29.471)
it will say, well, it's a part of the human condition. You just kind of have to live with it or manage it. And the research doesn't actually back that up. And the creation of panic proof came out of a curiosity that then became life impacting, where when I hit that rock bottom and the philosophy that I was given, that programming that I had inherited about myself,

Truth Seeker's Guide (05:49.985)
life impacting, where when I hit that rock bottom, and the philosophy that I was given that programming that I had inherited about myself, whether or not I'm broken, whether or not I'm able to heal when none of that was working, and we get to that place of almost do or die. And I know probably lot of some of your listeners could perhaps relate with that of, it just felt like it was going to be the end for me can feel so hopeless and so despairing is from

Dr. Nicole Cain (05:59.406)
whether or not I'm broken, whether or not I'm able to heal when none of that was working. And we get to that place of almost do or die. And I know probably a lot of, or some of your listeners could perhaps relate with that of, it just felt like it was going to be the end for me. It can feel so hopeless and so despairing. Is from that place of the Phoenix burning to the ground, from that place of, feel completely helpless and powerless-ness.

Truth Seeker's Guide (06:19.791)
From that place of the phoenix burning to the ground, from that place of I feel completely helpless and powerlessness, that's when we have an opportunity to give into that or to recreate, to rebuild, ask really different questions. So my journey involved that. I'd love to get into it in more detail, but it kind of started with curiosity and catastrophe, if you will.

Dr. Nicole Cain (06:28.097)
That's when we have an opportunity to give into that or to recreate, to rebuild, to ask really different questions. And so my journey involved that. And I'd love to get into it in more detail, but it kind of started with curiosity and catastrophe, if you will.

Truth Seeker's Guide (06:48.765)
Nice. Okay. That's awesome. And what inspired you write panic proof? You kind of answered that there a little bit but yeah, I was answering the same questions again and again, was in private practice and

Dr. Nicole Cain (06:58.413)
It wasn't...

Yeah, I was answering the same questions again and again. I was in private practice and I would have patients say, what does my gut have to do with my brain? Why are we talking about diet? My psychiatrist told me to take Zoloft and I'd be good to go. Why are we talking about my gut?

Truth Seeker's Guide (07:08.43)
I would have patients say, what is my gut have to do with my brain? Why are we talking about diet? My psychiatrist told me to take Zoloft and I'd be good to go. Why are we talking about my gut? And so then I'd find myself teaching these things again and again. I also taught the, well, I created the behavioral health program and revamped the behavioral health program and taught that at Sonoran University. I had all of this material. And also it's expensive to see a functional doctor, especially some

Dr. Nicole Cain (07:19.103)
And so then I'd find myself teaching these things again and again. I also taught the, well, I created the behavioral health program and revamped the behavioral health program and taught that at Sonoran University. So I had all of this material. And also it's expensive to see a functional doctor, especially somebody who's outside of the dominant medicine paradigm, the insurance paradigm, where they'll see you for five to 15 minutes, oftentimes write you a script or set

Truth Seeker's Guide (07:38.486)
who's outside of the dominant medicine paradigm, the insurance paradigm, where they'll see you for five to 15 minutes, oftentimes write you a script or send you to a talk therapist. And it's expensive. And so I was trying to figure out a way that I can make this information available for anybody. so writing a book is a great way to do that because now it's published in five languages all around the world. And you can get it at the library for free.

Dr. Nicole Cain (07:49.05)
you to a talk therapist. And it's expensive. And so I was trying to figure out a way that I can make this information available for anybody. And so writing a book is a great way to do that because now it's published in five languages all around the world. And you can get it at the library for free. Yeah.

Truth Seeker's Guide (08:08.142)
That's very good. Yeah, and one of the reasons I even reset as well, for many years of my life,

many years of my life, was taking prescription Xanax for anxiety. And it did so much harm, I feel, to my life. You know what mean? That I was so happy to, there was a moment in my life that I wanted to get off of Xanax and the problem was that it was very difficult. And so it felt like almost impossible to get out of Xanax. And there was a moment that I found in my life that I said, you know, this is, if any time is available for this, it would be now. And so it took me almost

a year because I took it for almost seven to ten years a very long time to me and it almost took me a year to wean off of this.

this drug for so long. And as I was trying to wean off and I asked my doctor, he prescribed Oslozoloft to wean off his annex. But then I'm here, I tried it once and I did not have a good experience with it. I didn't like it at all. In fact, I felt like I'd rather just not, know, it was, made me feel like a zombie or something. Like I just can't experience how horrible it made me feel. And then when I asked my wife about it and she's a, she's an RN, she's like, yeah, yeah, what was I side effect?

or suicidal thoughts or something. I'm like, why am I taking this then? This is crazy. I could see how people get that. And so I eventually weaned off without it. I looked into more natural ways of helping me cope during my time. And then after I weaned off, it took me almost...

Truth Seeker's Guide (09:43.227)
a year to get my mind back to where I am now, like where I felt like not only was it pretending to take this anxiety that I felt like when I got off of it I was able to cope without it, but then afterwards I realized that it was also affecting my memory.

It was affecting my connection to life, to people, to God, to anything. It was affecting way more and the cost was way higher than what I was trying to get from it. One of the best things I ever did was get off of that. Then it felt like my brain was on steroids and then I just started feeling back to normal. that's the reason, that was my little short story of how I dealt with that anxiety. And then I learned that I realized once you learn to cope with it naturally,

it's good for you because there's growth there instead of like trying to just jump the step and cheat I guess that kind of I don't know if I'm explaining that right but basically it's like saying instead of going to the gym and putting in the work and working out and building through breaking and growth I just went to get surgical muscles and there's no strength behind it you know any kind of thing you know

Dr. Nicole Cain (10:56.161)
I resonate very much with that. so it sounds to me like our stories are really similar.

Truth Seeker's Guide (10:56.482)
I resonate very much with that. so it sounds to me like our stories are really similar. Is that our healthcare providers are like, this is the conventional model. Is you take this medication, this prescription, but there isn't a conversation about why, why are we anxious? And I think that we could do better. And that's really why I'm having these conversations with people is because my story is very similar to yours and people are worthy.

Dr. Nicole Cain (11:02.239)
is that our healthcare providers are like, this is the conventional model, is you take this medication, this prescription, but there isn't a conversation about why, why are we anxious? And I think that we could do better. And that's really why I'm having these conversations with people is because my story is very similar to yours and people are worthy of asking why. And so if I can ask is in the very beginning,

Truth Seeker's Guide (11:26.349)
of asking why and so if I can ask is in the very beginning a doctor suggested that you take Xanax and it sounds like then you were given the Zoloft because you're trying to get off with the Xanax but then you were able to really put in a lot of work multiple years of work and you started to heal you really truly started to heal so for you do you remember what it was that the doctor was

Dr. Nicole Cain (11:32.096)
A doctor suggested that you take Xanax and it sounds like then you were given the Zoloft because you're trying to get off with the Xanax but then you were able to really put in a lot of work, multiple years of work and you started to heal. You really truly started to heal. So for you, do you remember what it was that the doctor was trying to treat in the beginning, that early symptom, that early indicator?

Truth Seeker's Guide (11:56.274)
trying to treat in the beginning that early symptom that early indicator? it was more of anxiety and some panic attacks that I that I got around the time but again I was a lot younger so looking back now I realized that my lifestyle wasn't great so my drinking and and different things that I partook that I feel like

Dr. Nicole Cain (12:18.284)
Yeah.

Truth Seeker's Guide (12:23.211)
Now looking back, it's probably what caused it. And then just trying to find a magical pill to like, just take it away. I, that's what I did. I took the magical pill and, and it worked wonders when you experienced the way you feel. And so, you know, it just, I, that's why I took advantage of it. And then it before, before I knew it, I was addicted to that, you know, drug.

Dr. Nicole Cain (12:44.173)
Yeah, and really, you're doing the best you can with the resources you have. And really, arguably, you're a trailblazer in having this kind of a conversation, even in 2025 when we're recording this, is you're trailblazing. Because if you go to actually, had an online teaching just before this, and I had someone in Trinidad.

Truth Seeker's Guide (12:45.241)
And that's really you're doing the best you can with the resources you have and really arguably You're a trailblazer in having this kind of a conversation even in 2025 when we're recording this trailblazing because if you go to actually I did it I had an online teaching just before this and I had someone in Trinidad and She was like I'm trying to taper off of benzos, but my doctor told me that there was

Dr. Nicole Cain (13:09.139)
And she was like, I'm trying to taper off of benzos, but my doctor told me that there was nothing I could do to help the process and that I just had to suffer through it because he doesn't believe in natural medicine.

Truth Seeker's Guide (13:15.217)
nothing I could do to help the process and that I just had to suffer through it because he doesn't believe in natural medicine and I can't tell you how often I hear that is that we have such an opportunity to increase

Dr. Nicole Cain (13:21.941)
And I can't tell you how often I hear that, is that we have such an opportunity to increase access to information, not only for the listeners of this podcast, but also for our healthcare practitioners who want to do better for their patients, but they're stuck perhaps in a really outdated paradigm. And so if I was your doctor back then,

Truth Seeker's Guide (13:31.347)
Access to information not only for the listeners of this podcast but also for our healthcare practitioners Who want to do better for their patients, but they're stuck perhaps in a really outdated paradigm And so if I was your doctor back then

Dr. Nicole Cain (13:48.384)
In the very beginning of all of this for you, what I would have perhaps done differently is pretended to be almost like Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes is great detective, he goes to the scene of the crime, he gets out his little notepad, he's got his pipe in his mouth, his hat on, right? And he's looking at everything with a fine tooth comb. He's asking all the questions, he's putting the dots together, he's making all these maps. We see this in forensics, we even see this.

Truth Seeker's Guide (13:48.695)
in the very beginning of all of this for you, what I would have perhaps done differently is pretended to be almost like Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes, this great detective, he goes to the scene of the crime, he gets out his little notepad, he's got his pipe in his mouth, his hat on, right? And he's looking at everything with a fine tooth comb. He's asking all the questions, he's putting the dots together, he's making all these maps. We see this in forensics, we even see this

Dr. Nicole Cain (14:18.287)
In medical diagnosis, we run tests, we do differentials, we do rule-outs, we get second opinions, but we aren't doing this, by and large, for mental health. So for you and for myself, if I could go back and treat myself, and probably for a lot of your listeners, is we would start by getting really clear on what your body is trying to tell us.

Truth Seeker's Guide (14:18.97)
In medical diagnosis, we run tests, we do differentials, we do rule-outs, we get second opinions, but we aren't doing this by and large for mental health. So for you and for myself, if I could go back and treat myself, and probably for a lot of your listeners, is we would start by getting really clear on what your body is trying to tell us.

Dr. Nicole Cain (14:44.479)
And once we have more information on what the body's trying to tell us, then we can reverse engineer how we got there. And once we could reverse engineer how we got there, then we can provide treatments where there aren't trade-offs. Because you were saying that yourself. said, well, maybe I feel calm for the first time. But now I also feel really depressed, and I can't remember things, and et cetera, and et cetera.

Truth Seeker's Guide (14:44.82)
And once we have more information on what the body's trying to tell us, then we can reverse engineer how we got there. And once we could reverse engineer how we got there, then we can provide treatments where there aren't trade-offs. Cause you were saying that yourself. said, well, maybe I feel like calm for the first time, but now I also feel really depressed and I can't remember things and et cetera. And retain information and yeah. Right.

Dr. Nicole Cain (15:13.621)
Right. I remember when I was on, I was on Valium for a good amount of time. And so it's a longer acting benzodiazepine. Xanax is really quick, it spikes and then it goes out and spikes. Valium is more for chronic long-term.

Truth Seeker's Guide (15:14.716)
You're like, I remember when I was on I was on Valium for a good amount of time and so it's a longer acting benzodiazepines Xanax is really quick spikes and then it goes out and spikes Valium is more for chronic long-term and I remember I was at a wedding and We were sitting in the reception and I remember sitting there in the chair and I was like I literally can't think and then I was like, my god, my brain is broken and then

Dr. Nicole Cain (15:29.325)
And I remember I was at a wedding and we were sitting in the reception and I remember sitting there in the chair and I was like, I literally can't think. And then I was like, Oh my God, my brain is broken. then despite the fact of being so sedated and not able to think, I was panicking despite that. So the trade-offs are real. And that's what happens when we have symptom management as opposed

Truth Seeker's Guide (15:44.522)
And despite the fact of being so sedated and not able to think, I was panicking despite that. So the trade-offs are real, and that's what happens when we have symptom management as opposed to actually promoting health and vitality of the mind, the body, the nervous system. Awesome. And I almost didn't speak about this because it's not...

Dr. Nicole Cain (15:59.232)
to actually promoting health and vitality of the mind, the body, the nervous system.

Truth Seeker's Guide (16:13.014)
So when the Zoloft didn't work for me, I was looking into natural things that were maybe more herbal or things that grew from the earth that weren't gonna have these side effects or things like that. And one of the studies I looked into John Hopkins University was that they had it to remove addiction where they were using microdosing of psilocybin. Now I know this wasn't something that you can find in your nearby store or something, so that's why it's a little hard to talk about, but I did want to share it

because I did find some and I ended up using the microdose of psilocybin. For those who don't understand, a microdose is like a tenth of what it could do and it doesn't give you any psychedelic effects or anything to that nature. But, believing it or not, that microdosing actually helped me with other things, of course. I was using Lion's Mane mushrooms and different things to help my cognitive health and feeding myself superfoods for my brain.

It really helped, and not because it took the pain away or anything, but for some reason it kind of helped me understand what I was going through, the microdose. It kind of helped me understand what was happening inside of me because it was very difficult in the beginning when I was weaning off his annex. mean, to the point where I couldn't even focus on a TV show for longer than two seconds without my mind wandering and I'm like, what's happening? I I would have to repeat what the people were saying and even then I couldn't. It was scary. I thought I was gonna be stuck in this non-focused,

Dr. Nicole Cain (17:38.52)
Yeah.

Truth Seeker's Guide (17:40.727)
loop. But yeah, I wanted to share that because what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, let's talk about that. That's this is super exciting.

Dr. Nicole Cain (17:45.954)
Yeah, let's talk about that. This is super exciting. There are two things that you said. I'm getting all, for those who are watching the video, I'm getting up in my chair. I'm so excited. I love that you were willing to share this, because this is cutting edge. You saw it in Johns Hopkins. They're doing a ton of clinical trials on this. And there is a difference, as you pointed out, in the nuance of heroic dosing, which is a large megadose as opposed to microdosing. And we see.

Truth Seeker's Guide (17:51.467)
There are two things that you said. I'm like getting all, for those who watching the video, I'm like getting up in my chair. I'm so excited. I love that you were willing to share this. Because this is cutting edge. You saw it in Johns Hopkins. You're doing a ton of clinical trials on this. And there is a difference, as you pointed out, in the nuance of heroic dosing, which is a large megadose as opposed to microdosing. And we see the research is largely in the microdosing, which is what you said you were using.

Dr. Nicole Cain (18:13.698)
The research is largely in the microdosing, which is what you said you were using. And what's really cool about how you were using it is exactly in support of what we think is happening with healing. So some of the ways we believe that psilocybin and other psychedelics may work is one, is it increases brain-derived neurotrophic factor. And what that is is we call it BDNF.

Truth Seeker's Guide (18:19.246)
And what's really cool about how you were using it is exactly in support of what we think is happening with healing. So some of the ways we believe that psilocybin and other psychedelics may work is one, is it increases brain derived neurotrophic factor. And what that is, is we call it BDNF.

Dr. Nicole Cain (18:42.676)
And that helps with neuroplasticity. And for those who are like, what are all these big words? It helps your brain heal itself, making new neurons, making new connections. And so when our brain is stuck in a loop, when it's stuck in a pattern, which oftentimes anxiety is, it's a maladaptive pattern that's been stuck, the body, the mind, the nervous system is trying to protect you.

Truth Seeker's Guide (18:42.961)
And that helps with neuroplasticity. And for those who are like, what are all these big words? It helps your brain heal itself, making new neurons, making new connections. And so when our brain is stuck in a loop, when it's stuck in a pattern, which oftentimes anxiety is, it's a maladaptive pattern that's been stuck, the body, the mind, the nervous system is trying to protect you, but you're not actually in danger. There's no tiger chasing you. It's out of context of real danger. It's just,

Dr. Nicole Cain (19:05.698)
But you're not actually in danger. There's no tiger chasing you. It's out of context of real danger. It's just stuck. And so what some of these psychedelics we believe can do can help increase neuroplasticity. And then you combined that. It's like hitting the gas on the car is you're increasing the ability of the brain and the nervous system to grow and change. And then you steered it like the steering wheel in the car and told it where to go.

Truth Seeker's Guide (19:12.797)
stuck. And so what some of these psychedelics we believe can do can help increase neuroplasticity. And then you combined that it's like hitting the gas on the car is you're increasing the ability of the brain and the nervous system to grow and change. And then you steered it like the steering wheel in the car and told it where to go. So you were doing healthy habits. You were taking in tons of nutrients. were supporting that process. And so I think that that

Dr. Nicole Cain (19:34.188)
So you were doing healthy habits. You were taking in tons of nutrients. You were supporting that process. And so I think that that is going to be a key factor for many people who are really curious about psychedelics is, well, if I just take a whole bunch and have a fun trip, is that experience going to be as therapeutic as if it's done mindfully, intentionally, perhaps with a trained clinician?

Truth Seeker's Guide (19:42.77)
is going to be a key factor for many people who are really curious about psychedelics is well if I just take a whole bunch and have a fun trip is that experience going to be as therapeutic as if it's mindfully intentionally perhaps with a trained clinician who can help you work through what's getting unpacked. So I really love that you talked about that. The other thing

Dr. Nicole Cain (20:01.752)
who can help you work through what's getting unpacked. So I really love that you talked about that. The other thing that I think is really interesting with psychedelics, which is a little bit unique to this kind of psilocybin of plant medicine, is that it can activate parts of the brain that are involved in getting outside of ourselves. So one of the key features of anxiety.

Truth Seeker's Guide (20:09.034)
that I think is really interesting with psychedelics, which is a little bit unique to this kind of psilocybin of plant medicine, is that it can activate parts of the brain that are involved in getting outside of ourselves. So one of the key features of anxiety is that our brains get stuck in what's called the default mode network.

Dr. Nicole Cain (20:28.256)
is that our brains get stuck in what's called the default mode network. This is when you're in autopilot. This is when you're driving down the highway, you're not changing lanes, you're not taking the exit, you're just zoned out and going. Most people, we live approximately 95 % of our waking time in default mode network. It's an autopilot network. This is the network we see most with anxiety. It's very self-reflective, it's very ruminative. This is people who

Truth Seeker's Guide (20:33.267)
This is when you're in autopilot. This is when you're driving down the highway, you're not changing lanes, you're not taking the exit, you're just zoned out and going.

Most people, live approximately 95 % of our waking time in default mode network. It's an autopilot network. This is the network we see most with anxiety. It's very self-reflective. It's very ruminative. This is people who may experience hypochondriasis, like, I felt this little feeling. What if it's that? Or, my gosh, my heart is pounding and I can't stop paying attention to it. Or my thoughts are spinning, right? Thought anxiety.

Dr. Nicole Cain (20:58.038)
may experience hypochondriasis, like, I felt this little feeling. What if it's that? Or, my gosh, my heart is pounding and I can't stop paying attention to it, or my thoughts are spinning, right? Thought anxiety. And what we see is that if we can shift out of that default mode into what's called the executive control network, which is your dream team, this is the part of you that's talking to me right now in this podcast.

Truth Seeker's Guide (21:12.309)
see is that if we can shift out of that default mode into what's called the executive control network, which is your dream team, this is the part of you that's talking to me right now in this podcast. We're being logical, analytical, creative, we're pivoting, we're responding. This is the car taking the exit on the highway when you don't want to be on this highway, right? We see that psilocybin, for some people, can help take us out of default mode network.

Dr. Nicole Cain (21:24.45)
we're being logical, analytical, creative, we're pivoting, we're responding, this is the car taking the exit on the highway when you don't want to be on this highway, right? We see that psilocybin for some people can help take us out of default mode network and increase connectivity to that which is outside of us. And so some people say, I feel like I'm connected to nature. I feel like I'm connected to higher power. I feel connected to other people.

Truth Seeker's Guide (21:40.433)
and increase connectivity to that which is outside of us. And so some people say, I feel like I'm connected to nature. I feel like I'm connected to higher power. I feel connected to other people. And we see that these are actually positive changes that are occurring in the brain. So we're reducing connections to default mode.

Dr. Nicole Cain (21:53.261)
And we see that these are actually positive changes that are occurring in the brain. So we're reducing connections to default mode and we're increasing connections to our higher self and our more executive self, which is so cool. And I could go on for days.

Truth Seeker's Guide (22:02.388)
and we're increasing connections to our higher self and our more executive self, which is so cool. And I can go on. No, no, no. I think that.

That could probably be a second segment in the future. But that is what definitely. But but it was yeah it was interesting because exactly what you explain is what it kind of felt like. You know it felt like you can step out of yourself and kind of see what's going on and help you understand because it's funny how understanding something as you're going through the process how much it helps is incredible. It just kind of makes things a little easier kind of like a pain with a purpose kind of thing you know and so you you kind of see what's happening and it helps you cope

Dr. Nicole Cain (22:15.438)
Definitely. Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (22:24.482)
Yes.

Truth Seeker's Guide (22:42.956)
through the process. then of course, to me was with the things that really did help me when I was trying to get off because again, I was taking Xanax for over 10 years, you know, so we're talking a long time that my body and my mind was dependent on this drug. So it really did help me through that process. And it's a very interesting situation. That's why I was curious about it, because I know a lot of people

can maybe judge it too much, you know, and not really understand what it can do. And I could see how also the dangers could be if not doing it with the right. So it's sad that I didn't have access to be able to talk to someone professionally about it, you know, and be able to do this the right way. But I did enough research where I hope I did it right and it work out at that moment for that. But that's amazing. Awesome.

Dr. Nicole Cain (23:13.528)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (23:37.974)
an idea for you that might be interesting is that there's a part of the brain is called the hippocampus and the hippocampus is the part of the brain that helps with processing of memory and I'm trained in EMDR. Are you familiar with that or can expand to titch on that?

Truth Seeker's Guide (23:38.335)
an idea that might be interesting is that there's a part of the brain is called the hippocampus and the hippocampus is the part of the brain that helps with processing and memory.

And I'm trained in EMDR. Are you familiar with that or can expand to titch on that? No, go ahead and expand. Yeah. Yeah. EMDR is one of the best forms of therapy that is covered by insurance. stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy. What a mouthful, right? So we just call it EMDR. And through the research of EMDR, we have found that anxiety, depression, pain, even immune system function

Dr. Nicole Cain (23:59.309)
Yeah, EMDR is one of the best forms of therapy that is covered by insurance. stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy. What a mouthful, right? So we just call it EMDR. And through the research of EMDR, we have found that anxiety, depression, pain, even immune system function, that that gets stored in the body.

Truth Seeker's Guide (24:22.366)
that that gets stored in the body. that's why Bessel said in the title of his book, The Body Keeps the Score, is because of what we're finding in that research. so arguably, theoretically, is that your body may still have memory of what was going on before all of this started. And it may have memory of what was going on while you were doing this microdosing. And you mentioned feeling

Dr. Nicole Cain (24:26.848)
That's why Bessel said in the title of his book, The Body Keeps the Score, is because of what we're finding in that research. so arguably, theoretically, is that your body may still have memory of what was going on before all of this started. And it may have memory of what was going on while you were doing this microdosing. And you mentioned feeling

a little bit perhaps regretful that you didn't have access to somebody who could use that experience therapeutically. But what you could do is you could go back in now and access those old memory networks and the benefits of those memory networks and you could reprocess them now. Can I share a concrete example of that? So I wrote about her in the book, we call her Esme in the book, and

Truth Seeker's Guide (24:52.179)
little bit perhaps regretful that you didn't have access to somebody who could use that experience therapeutically. But what you could do is you could go back in now.

and access those old memory networks and the benefits of those memory networks and you could reprocess them now. Can I share a concrete example of that? So I wrote about her in the book. We call her Esme in the book. And Esme was raised by a very abusive alcoholic parent. And this parent would be physically aggressive with her.

Dr. Nicole Cain (25:21.204)
Esme was raised by a very abusive alcoholic parent. And this parent would be physically aggressive with her. And she came to me for treatment of uterine pain, uterine cramps, later was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. She also had a lot of kind of anxiety and depression and OCD symptoms. And one of the many exercises that we did, it wasn't all of it, but just part of it.

Truth Seeker's Guide (25:32.036)
And she came to me for treatment of uterine pain, uterine cramps, later was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. She also had a lot of kind of anxiety and depression and OCD symptoms. And one of the many exercises that we did, it wasn't all of it, but just part of it, is we did something called meeting place. Meeting place comes from EMDR. And so to do this exercise, we had her close her eyes, kind of get her into a relaxed, almost hypnotic

Dr. Nicole Cain (25:50.015)
is we did something called meeting place. Meeting place comes from EMDR. And so to do this exercise, we had her close her eyes, kind of get her into a relaxed, almost hypnotic state. And we had her notice the feeling in her abdomen when she was having cramps, when she was having pain. She noticed that feeling. And then we imagined that she was in a room and she invited in characters or

Truth Seeker's Guide (26:02.073)
state and we had her notice the feeling in her abdomen when she was having cramps and she was having pain. She noticed that feeling and then we imagined that she was in a room and she invited in characters or parts that could represent that feeling. It's very imaginative. So she imagined different parts of her cells come in. In particular, little esmee came in.

Dr. Nicole Cain (26:17.382)
that could represent that feeling. It's very imaginative. So she imagined different parts of her cells come in. In particular, little Esme came in and she's like, I don't know. I'm imagining a room. I see my little self come in when I think about this pain. And so we talked to that little self and we said, okay, part, what is it you're trying to tell us when you show us this pain? And Esme had a memory of being kicked in the abdomen

Truth Seeker's Guide (26:27.749)
And she's like, I don't know. I'm imagining a room. see my little self come in when I think about this pain. And so we talked to that little self and we said, okay, part, what is it you're trying to tell us when you show us this pain? And as may had a memory of being kicked in the abdomen by her parent. And she started noticing she's feeling the pain. The memory was really visceral and

Dr. Nicole Cain (26:46.402)
by her parent. And she started noticing she's feeling the pain, the memory was really visceral. And what ended up happening was absolutely incredible. What ended up happening is what previous research would have said is impossible. And she ended up time stamping that memory to being in the past.

Truth Seeker's Guide (26:55.672)
What ended up happening?

was absolutely incredible. What ended up happening is what previous research would have said is impossible. And she ended up time stamping that memory to being in the past and no longer in the present because that adaptation was stored. That part was holding on to that. We have to be ready in case our parent hits us again. We have to be ready. have to adapt to being protected from that. We can't forget because that was

Dr. Nicole Cain (27:12.512)
and no longer in the present because that adaptation was stored. That part was holding on to that. We have to be ready in case our parent hits us again. We have to be ready. We have to adapt to being protected from that. We can't forget because that was dangerous. But that stuck the hippocampus is stored that away in the different parts of the brain and the body and all those adaptive loops are keeping us protected from that. And so when we did the meeting place work,

Truth Seeker's Guide (27:27.876)
dangerous. But that stuck the hippocampus to store that away in the different parts of the brain and the body and all those adaptive loops are keeping us protected from that. And so when we did the meeting place work, and we talked to that part, we heard from that part, and we told that part that it's now 2020, we'll say five, and we no longer ever have to go back there again. And we can let go of that burden, we can do that healing.

Dr. Nicole Cain (27:39.063)
And we talked to that part, we heard from that part, and we told that part that it's now 2020, we'll say five, and we no longer ever have to go back there again, and we can let go of that burden, we can do that healing. She no longer experienced cramps, she no longer experienced the symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome, and we're seeing this again and again and again in the research. So I say that story because if you have a part of you, it's like, wow, I wish I could have had this for this.

Truth Seeker's Guide (27:53.271)
she no longer experienced cramps. no longer experienced the symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome. And we're seeing this again and again and again, and the research. I say that story. Yeah, because if you have a part of you, it's like, wow, I wish I could have had this for this. You could go back in and do that. Right. You could do it in EMDR or you could even do it in the privacy of your own office. Well, yeah. So basically, it's like, we have programming that sometimes it's in on a subconscious level where we

Dr. Nicole Cain (28:08.386)
you could go back in and do that. You could do it in EMDR or you could even do it in the privacy of your own office.

Truth Seeker's Guide (28:23.118)
It's not like we're aware of it, but it's there because our body and mind keeps this kind of memory to make sure that we can defend ourselves or respond the right way to protect ourselves. And we might not know it's there because we haven't acknowledged it or gone back, like you're saying, to this memory and then at least put it in the right place where it should fit, where then it will align with your future or your present at that moment, I would say, right?

That was brilliantly said. Yes, a thousand times. Awesome. Alright, just wanted to make sure. And just jumping back into this, why do you believe anxiety is not just in the head, but rooted in the whole body?

Dr. Nicole Cain (28:53.582)
That was brilliantly said, yes, a thousand times.

Dr. Nicole Cain (28:59.597)
Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (29:08.78)
We see that there are a lot of different root causes of anxiety. And in fact, I'm speaking at the Integrated Medicine for Mental Health Conference on psycho bio neuroimmunology. And what that is, is it's the science of how the immune system, the nervous system, and our endocrine system can affect each other and therefore affect our moods. And so for example,

Truth Seeker's Guide (29:09.074)
We see that there are a lot of different root causes of anxiety. And in fact, I'm speaking at the Integrated Medicine for Mental Health Conference on psychobio neuroimmunology. Cool. And what that is is it's the science of how the immune system, the nervous system, and our endocrine system can affect each other and therefore affect our moods. And so for example,

Dr. Nicole Cain (29:35.719)
Do you ever get, or do you know anybody? I'm asking this question in a way that you'll hopefully say yes. That gets itchy eyes, watery eyes, maybe post-nasal drip, or some seasonal stuff. Yeah. Yeah, same. Apparently, I'm allergic to all green things like grass and trees, but I love that.

Truth Seeker's Guide (29:36.278)
Do you ever get, or do you know anybody, I'm asking this question in a way that you'll hopefully say yes, that gets itchy eyes, watery eyes, maybe post-nasal drip or some seasonal stuff? Yeah, I mean, I get allergies, but yes. Yeah, yeah, same. Apparently I'm allergic to all green things like grass and trees, but I love that.

Dr. Nicole Cain (29:57.537)
So the immune system cell that's largely behind that is called histamine, right? We take antihistamines and Benadryl. And perhaps you've noticed this, but Benadryl can make you feel pretty sleepy, right? Sometimes people take it for anxiety and insomnia. It can make you feel drowsy. And what's interesting about histamine is that it is as stimulating to the nervous system as adrenaline. So let's say that.

Truth Seeker's Guide (29:57.837)
So the immune system cell that's largely behind that is called histamine, right? We take antihistamines and Benadryl. And perhaps you've noticed this, but Benadryl can make you feel pretty sleepy, right? Sometimes people take it for anxiety and insomnia. It make you feel drowsy. And what's interesting about histamine is that it is as stimulating to the nervous system as adrenaline.

So let's say that a patient, we'll call him Joe, Joe goes to his doctor and he says, I'm dealing with a lot of panic and a lot of anxiety. And the doctor's like, well, you could do talk therapy or we could give you a medication like Xanax or likely they'll do an SSRI like Ziloft first. So now Joe's like, I've done the talk therapy. I've analyzed the heck out of it. My body doesn't care what I think. The body's going rogue.

Dr. Nicole Cain (30:26.93)
that a patient will call him Joe. Joe goes to his doctor and he says, I'm dealing with a lot of panic and a lot of anxiety. And the doctor's like, well, you could do talk therapy or we could give you a medication like Xanax or likely they'll

do an SSRI like Zilloft first. So now Joe's like, I've done the talk therapy. I've analyzed the heck out of it. My body doesn't care what I think. The body's going rogue. It's doing its own thing. OK, so we give you an antidepressant. So now someone's dealing with all of this panic and anxiety. And now they're taking an antidepressant. And Joe's feeling really frustrated because now he has no libido. He doesn't want to be intimate with his partner. He's also gaining weight. And that's frustrating. And he's feeling kind of suicidal.

Truth Seeker's Guide (30:55.013)
doing its own thing. Okay, so we give you an antidepressant. So now someone's dealing with all of this panic and anxiety. And now they're taking an antidepressant and Joe's feeling really frustrated because now he has no libido. He doesn't want to be intimate with his partner. He's also gaining weight and that's frustrating. And he's feeling kind of suicidal. He's feeling kind of depressed. He's also noticed that he's had the worst allergies. His eyes are puffy, his nose is puffy. So he goes back to the doctor and the doctor's like,

Dr. Nicole Cain (31:14.48)
He's feeling kind of depressed. He's also noticed that he's had the worst allergies. His eyes are puffy, his nose is puffy. So he goes back to the doctor and the doctor's like, okay, well you have no libido, so let's try adding Wellbutrin.

Truth Seeker's Guide (31:24.913)
like, okay, well, you have no libido. So let's try adding Wellbutrin. Wellbutrin can be helpful for that. And I'm going to give you an antihistamine. So now he's on Wellbutrin and he's on Zoloft and he's tired from the antihistamine. He's zoned out. He feels like a zombie. He's on all these medications and he's no better.

Dr. Nicole Cain (31:30.164)
Wellbutrin can be helpful for that. And I'm gonna give you an antihistamine. So now he's on Wellbutrin and he's on Zoloft and he's tired from the antihistamine. He's zoned out, he feels like a zombie. He's on all these medications and he's no better. And.

Truth Seeker's Guide (31:46.928)
And this can go on and on and on. And we can talk for days about the domino effects of all of that. For example, increasing your risk of Alzheimer's disease we see with chronic antihistamine use, all these different things. But a better way, if Joe came into the office, would be to be like, OK, well, let's talk about all your symptoms, head to toe, not just from the neck up. Right? Oh, well, I have runny nose. I have this and this and this.

Dr. Nicole Cain (31:47.276)
And this can go on and on and on. And we could talk for days about the domino effects of all of that. For example, increasing your risk of Alzheimer's disease we see with chronic antihistamines, all these different things. But a better way, if Joe came into the office, would be like, OK, well, let's talk about all your symptoms, head to toe, not just from the neck up. Right? well, I have runny nose. I have this and this and this.

And let's say that the doctor is adept at the psycho bio neuro immunological root causes of anxiety and says, I'm wondering about histamine. But if they do even better and instead of saying, well, I'm just going to suppress histamine, the doctor asks why? Why is this person suffering from histamine and that person isn't? So now that we're curious.

Truth Seeker's Guide (32:13.325)
And let's say that the doctor is adept at the psycho bio neuro immunological root causes of anxiety and says, I'm wondering about histamine, but if they do even better, and instead of saying, well, I'm just going to suppress histamine, the doctor asks, why, why is this person suffering from histamine and that person isn't. So now that we're curious, we can go even deeper. all about going deeper. Sherlock Holmes isn't looking at the surfaces. He's opening canisters. He's digging.

Dr. Nicole Cain (32:35.639)
we can go even deeper. It's all about going deeper. Sherlock Holmes isn't looking at the surfaces. He's opening canisters. He's digging. He may even get a shovel and dig, right? So we dig deeper and deeper. So let's say that it turns out that Joe lives in a moldy apartment.

Truth Seeker's Guide (32:43.211)
may even get a shovel and dig, right? So we dig deeper and deeper. So let's say that it turns out that Joe lives in a moldy apartment. And so now he has all of this exogenous exposure to mold.

Dr. Nicole Cain (32:52.653)
And so now he has all of this exogenous exposure to mold. Mold releases toxins. It could be irritating for the immune system. It could be irritating for the gut and the brain. So his immune system is constantly in the state of inflammation. And also, the doctor may do genetic testing. And it turns out that this individual is really not good at detoxing and processing histamine. He's not good at methylated.

Truth Seeker's Guide (32:57.529)
mold releases toxins, can be irritating for the immune system, it can be irritating for the gut and the brain. So his immune system is constantly in the state of inflammation. And also the doctor may do genetic testing and it turns out that this individual is really not good at detoxing and processing histamine. He's not good at methylated. So suddenly we have identified an obstacle to cure of living in a moldy apartment.

Dr. Nicole Cain (33:18.869)
So suddenly we have identified an obstacle to cure living in a moldy apartment, and we've identified an opportunity to give the body what it needs to properly eliminate and detox the histamine, which could be as easy as it be complex if it's methylation. And then Joe will actually get healthier. The obstacle be removed, the body's working better, and we see in all of this research,

Truth Seeker's Guide (33:24.374)
And we've identified an opportunity to give the body what it needs to properly eliminate and detox the histamine, which could be as easy as it be complex if it's methylation. And then Joe will actually get healthier. The obstacle be removed, the body's working better. And we see...

in all of this research that these kinds of approaches help anxiety. instead of having the original problems, but now all of these additional problems, he's actually relieving himself of the root cause. Gotcha. So good. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Awesome. That's really well explained. you, you categorize anxiety into nine types.

Dr. Nicole Cain (33:44.75)
that these kinds of approaches help anxiety. So instead of having the original problems, but now all of these additional problems, he's actually relieving himself of the root cause. So good, right? So good.

Truth Seeker's Guide (34:12.589)
What are they and how can people identify their type? Yeah, we'll go through the nine types. So this is really good. If you feel like I don't know where to start, I'm not a diagnostician. I'm not an expert, but helping is kind of zero in on the system will help us zero in on where to look next.

Dr. Nicole Cain (34:16.183)
Yeah, we'll go through the nine types. So this is really good if you feel like, I don't know where to start. I'm not a diagnostician. I'm not an expert. But helping is kind of zero in on the system will help us zero in on where to look next. thought anxiety is when anxiety is really in the thoughts, like obsessive thoughts, looping thoughts, ADHD thoughts, or even brain fog. Like, have you ever been put on the spot and you're just like brain goes blank and you're just like, ugh.

Truth Seeker's Guide (34:31.584)
So thought anxiety is when anxiety is really in the thoughts, like obsessive thoughts, looping thoughts, ADHD thoughts, or even brain fog. Like have you ever been put on the spot and your just like brain goes blank and you're just like, ugh, right? Thought anxiety. then.

Dr. Nicole Cain (34:46.115)
Right? Thought anxiety. And then...

Chest anxiety is when your heart is pounding or you feel like an elephant's on your chest or maybe even you can't get a fresh breath. I worked with an Olympic athlete once a few years back who had chest anxiety where he felt like he just had to try to breathe deeper, deeper, deeper, and his shoulders would go higher. And he's like, I can't get any oxygen. This is chest anxiety. Gut anxiety. I see this a lot in men. And I see it a lot in people.

Truth Seeker's Guide (34:49.622)
Chest anxiety is when your heart is pounding or you feel like an elephant's on your chest or maybe even you can't get a fresh breath. I worked with an Olympic athlete once a few years back who had chest anxiety where he felt like he just had to try to breathe deeper, deeper, deeper, and his shoulders would go higher and he's like, can't get any oxygen. This chest anxiety. Gut anxiety. I see this a lot in men and I see it a lot in people

Dr. Nicole Cain (35:19.279)
who are in hormonal transitional states. This is when our gut does the talking. We get heartburn, we get nausea, we get gas or bloating. I see kids often, my stomach hurts, I don't wanna go to school, but it could be gut anxiety, right?

Truth Seeker's Guide (35:19.538)
who are in hormonal transitional states. This is when our gut does the talking. We get heartburn, we get nausea, we get gas or bloating. I see kids often, my stomach hurts, I don't wanna go to school, but it could be gut anxiety, right?

Dr. Nicole Cain (35:34.559)
And if someone has gut anxiety, we definitely want to look at the gut. We want to look at the gut brain access versus if it's just in the thoughts, maybe we don't start in the gut. And then we have immune system anxiety, which we talked about originates in the immune system. We have endocrine anxiety, which originates in hormones, thyroid, cortisol, sex hormones like testosterone and estrogen. And then we have anger anxiety where oftentimes anger is misunderstood and we're not treating it as anxiety, but really

Truth Seeker's Guide (35:35.198)
And if someone has gut anxiety, we definitely want to look at the gut. We want to look at the gut brain access versus if it's just in the thoughts, maybe we don't start in the gut. And then we have immune system anxiety, which we talked about originates in the immune system. have endocrine anxiety, which originates in hormones, thyroid cortisol, sex hormones like testosterone and estrogen. And then we have anger anxiety where oftentimes anger is misunderstood and we're not treating it as anxiety, but really that's

Dr. Nicole Cain (36:04.462)
that's what's underneath of it. We have depressive anxiety. And that's, as you and I talked about earlier, depression and anxiety mixed. And then we have trauma anxiety. And really, trauma is an umbrella that covers all of it because anxiety is an adaptation to what did or did not happen that is now stuck.

Truth Seeker's Guide (36:05.071)
what's underneath of it. We have depressive anxiety. And that's, as you and I talked about earlier, depression and anxiety mixed. And then we have trauma anxiety. And really trauma is an umbrella that covers all of it because anxiety is an adaptation to what did or did not happen that is now stuck.

Dr. Nicole Cain (36:23.98)
But I have identified it as a separate type because if the main thing, the main thing is this thing happened like I was in a car accident or there's a big storm or I was in combat and I have intrusive thoughts or nightmares or avoidance, we really want to use trauma focused therapy first. And so that's the ninth type. I think I got through all of them. Did I miss anything?

Truth Seeker's Guide (36:24.299)
But I have identified it as a separate type because if the main thing, the main thing is this thing happened, like I was in a car accident or there's a big storm or I was in combat and I have intrusive thoughts or nightmares or avoidance, we really want to use trauma focused therapy first. And so that's the ninth type. I think I got through all of them. Did I miss anything? Thought, chest.

Dr. Nicole Cain (36:51.672)
Thought. Got.

Truth Seeker's Guide (36:52.811)
gut and then you have your immunity hormones and then I think I can't remember the rest now but you've got a lot of anger depression and trauma yeah all right great no that's awesome that explains and what's the biggest misconception people have about panic or anxiety

Dr. Nicole Cain (37:01.762)
You've got through a lot of them. Anger, depression, and trauma. Yeah, we got them. Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (37:18.494)
Ooh, one is that panic is a problem to be solved. And actually you were talking earlier and I wrote down something that you said, cause I thought it was so good, is you said pain with purpose. And underneath of that, I wrote panic on purpose.

Truth Seeker's Guide (37:18.732)
One is that panic is a problem to be solved. And actually you were talking earlier and I wrote down something that you said, because I thought it was so good, is you said pain with purpose. And underneath that I wrote panic on purpose.

Dr. Nicole Cain (37:34.797)
because our panic isn't the problem. Our panic is our body's way of trying to communicate a problem. And the more we deny, it will amplify and the more we resist, it will persist. So the biggest myth about panic is it's a problem to be solved as opposed to the truth of the research is that panic is a solution. And it's our jobs just to figure out how to heal that. So that's the first one. And then the second is that anxiety and panic are things you just have to live

Truth Seeker's Guide (37:35.22)
because our panic isn't the problem. Our panic is our body's way of trying to communicate a problem. Gotcha. And the more we deny, it will amplify and the more we resist, it will persist. So the biggest myth about panic is it's a problem to be solved as opposed to the truth of the research is that panic is a solution. And it's our jobs just to figure out how to heal that. So that's the first one. And then the second is that anxiety.

and panic are things you just have to live with forever. That is a myth. We can actually heal from anxiety and panic. And I want to give an example of that if we just have a few more minutes. Yeah, of course. Is I used to have a horrible fear of flying, terrible. Like I would be chomping on ice chips, crying my eyes out, fetal position, praying to whatever God would listen. And I was 100 % sure that I was going to die in that

Dr. Nicole Cain (38:04.72)
with forever, that is a myth. We can actually heal from anxiety and panic. And I want to give an example of that, if we just have a few more minutes. I used to have a horrible fear of flying, like terrible. I would be chomping on ice chips, crying my eyes out, fetal position, praying to whatever God would listen. And I was 100 % sure that I was going to die in the plane.

There's all these somatic sensations. Like when you get stressed, where does it show up in your body?

Truth Seeker's Guide (38:32.172)
There's all these somatic sensations. Like when you get stressed, where does it show up in your body?

I would say, I'm not sure exactly. I mean, I guess, because I can think of that it can show up in a lot of different places. Your stomach, your chest, your thoughts, things like that. Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (38:44.812)
Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (38:48.482)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (38:55.746)
Yeah.

Totally. And that's the same for me too, is I felt like my whole body, like my stomach was churning, my elephant was on my chest. I even had nerve pain, nervous system anxiety. think we missed that one. Nervous system anxiety, where I felt like electricity zapping through my gums and my teeth, and it was just terror. And then I would be afraid of the fear. And then when the fear happens, I'm even more afraid, and it spirals, spirals, spirals. So I found myself trying to suppress and cope away the anxiety.

Truth Seeker's Guide (38:57.195)
Totally, and that's the same for me too, is I felt like my whole body, like my stomach was churning, my elephant was on my chest, I even had nerve pain, nervous system anxiety, I think we missed that one, nervous system anxiety, where I felt like electricity zapping through my gums and my teeth and it was just terror. And then I would be afraid of the fear, and then when the fear happens, I'm even more afraid and it spirals, spirals, spirals. So I found myself trying to suppress and cope away the anxiety.

Dr. Nicole Cain (39:26.864)
But what's different now, years later, after doing all this work for years later, I can fly. I just went to Portugal recently. The flu was great. But sometimes if we hit some really wonky air, especially because I'm in Phoenix and it's always terrible flying into Phoenix, is that sometimes my body will say, ooh, we don't like these bumps. This is a little much.

Truth Seeker's Guide (39:27.149)
But what's different now, years later after doing all this work for years later, I can fly. I just went to Portugal recently, the flu was great. But sometimes if we hit some really wonky air, especially because I'm in Phoenix and it's always terrible flying into Phoenix, is that sometimes my body will say, ooh, we don't like these bumps, this is a little much.

Dr. Nicole Cain (39:51.273)
And instead of being in that default mode network of autopilot of like, I'm on cruise control, terror central. I'm able to get into that executive place, that logical place. And I'm able to say, interesting. We're feeling activated right now. The body is talking and I'm going to allow myself to feel the signs of panic on purpose. Because if I can tolerate it, if I can feel it, if I can notice it, then I can integrate.

Truth Seeker's Guide (39:51.567)
And instead of being in that default mode network of autopilot of like, I'm on cruise control, terror central, I'm able to get into that executive place, that logical place. And I'm able to say, interesting, we're feeling active.

body is talking. And I'm going to allow myself to feel the signs of panic on purpose. Because if I can tolerate it, if I can feel it, if I can notice it, then I can integrate it in real time. And every single time that we successfully do that, we feel a greater sense of power. And power is the antidote to panic. Nice.

Dr. Nicole Cain (40:21.156)
it in real time. And every single time that we successfully do that, we feel a greater sense of power. And power is the antidote to panic.

Truth Seeker's Guide (40:34.875)
And can you give an example how power is the antidote to Xanax? I mean, to panic. Yeah. It's like, do you do anything like thrilling, thrill seeking? Like mountain climbing, biking, high ropes. What's your favorite? I mean, I can't, I'm not going to say it's so thrill seeking, I mean, I pay, I play tennis and.

Dr. Nicole Cain (40:41.344)
Yeah. It's like, do you do anything like thrilling, thrill seeking? Like mountain climbing, biking, high ropes. What's your favorite?

Truth Seeker's Guide (41:02.589)
and I like to jog. I haven't done it in a while, but four wheelers and side by sides are thrilling for me.

Dr. Nicole Cain (41:10.327)
Yeah.

Oh, that's so cool. I like to do rock walls. I climb rock walls. I'm like, oh my god, this belay, if it doesn't catch me, I'm like donezo. But it's truly safe. And so what's really neat is that the feelings of adrenaline when we're excited, you're married. like when she's walking down the aisle or when you're doing a high ropes course or some people, they jump out of airplanes and

Truth Seeker's Guide (41:13.93)
Oh, that's so cool. I like to do rock walls and like I climb rock walls. I'm like, oh my God, this belay if it doesn't catch me, I'm like done. So, but it's truly safe. And so what's really neat is that the feelings of adrenaline when we're excited, like you're married. like walking down, when she's walking down the aisle or when you're doing a high ropes course or some people they jump out of airplanes and I think that's crazy.

Dr. Nicole Cain (41:42.411)
I think that's crazy, but you that's the thrill for them. Or when you're about to do public speaking or something exciting is that by and large, the chemical signals that the body is releasing is identical to the chemicals that we release in panic. The difference is context. And so if we can simply notice and perhaps even reframe those experiences like, wow, my heart is pounding right now. I'm feeling a little bit excited.

Truth Seeker's Guide (41:43.837)
But you know, that's the thrill for them. Or when you're about to do public speaking or something exciting is that by and large the chemical signals that the body is releasing is identical to the chemicals that we release in panic. Okay. The difference is context.

And so if we can simply notice and perhaps even reframe those experiences like, wow, my heart is pounding right now. I'm feeling a little bit activated. I'm feeling a little excited. Maybe I'm feeling a little bit nervous and I haven't experienced this before, but this is kind of exciting. And then suddenly we have the power to use our own neuroplasticity to create the life that we want, to create the responses that we want. Right. And that's, that's powerful.

Dr. Nicole Cain (42:12.304)
I'm feeling a little excited. Maybe I'm feeling a little bit nervous and I haven't experienced this before, but this is kind of exciting. And then suddenly we have the power to use our own neuroplasticity to create the life that we want, to create the responses that we want. Right? And that's, that's powerful. Yeah.

Truth Seeker's Guide (42:32.79)
Wow, okay, awesome. How is the gut connected to our mood and anxiety levels?

Dr. Nicole Cain (42:42.242)
Yeah, there's this book I love, it's called the Psychobiotic Revolution. And the authors in this book talked about how our opinions about food, our cravings, like actually before you and I were talking, I was like craving peanut butter. So I was like chowing down on peanut butter. And we like to think that we're the ones that are feeling this way and craving it. But interestingly, the research into the gut brain access shows that

Truth Seeker's Guide (42:42.57)
Yeah, there's this book I love it's called the Psychobiotic Revolution. And the authors in this book talked about how our opinions about food, our cravings, like actually before you and I were talking, I was like craving peanut butter. So I was like chowing down on peanut butter. And we like to think that we're the ones that are feeling this way and craving it. But interestingly, the research into the gut brain access shows that

Dr. Nicole Cain (43:11.102)
those cravings and by and large those emotions come from the microbiome in the gut and yes yeah

Truth Seeker's Guide (43:11.428)
those cravings and by and large those emotions come from the microbiome in the gut. Like a sugar crave. Yes. Yeah. Those yeasty bugs in the gut are like we need sugar and so they send a signal up your vagus nerve your vagus nerve talks to your brain is like hey we need to crave sugar brains like I got you.

Dr. Nicole Cain (43:20.622)
Those yeasty bugs in the gut are like, we need sugar. And so they send a signal up your vagus nerve. Your vagus nerve talks to your brain. It's like, hey, we need to crave sugar. Brain's like, I got you. And then suddenly you're like, huh, I could really use a brownie right now. Or I could use an ice cream cone. And you're like, wow, I had such a good idea. And the bugs in your gut are like, ha ha, we wanted that.

Truth Seeker's Guide (43:31.529)
And then suddenly you're like, huh, I could really use a brownie right now. I could use an ice cream cone. You're like, wow, I had such a good idea. And the bugs in your gut are like, ha ha, we want that. And so your gut will regulate your neurotransmitters. Your gut regulates your mood. Your gut regulates your immune system. Your gut is the boss. Gotcha. And you mentioned

Dr. Nicole Cain (43:41.802)
And so your gut will regulate your neurotransmitters, your gut regulates your mood, your gut regulates your immune system, your gut is the boss.

Truth Seeker's Guide (43:57.149)
So basically like almost like when you said the the yeast and things in the gut, it's kind of like because I I I

I bake sourdough, so I grow a starter and I also have a ginger bug. And so I don't know if you know what that is, but they're fermented, you know, and so you got to keep feeding them so they stay alive, you know? And very similar to this gut biome is what you mean. So it's kind of like that, like you're feeding it, it grows and it has its life and it's asking for more to stay alive.

Dr. Nicole Cain (44:08.068)
Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (44:16.015)
Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (44:28.343)
Yeah, have you ever seen the little shop of horrors? Feed me, see more. It's like the plant that eats people, traumatized children throughout the 80s and 90s. Yeah, that's it. Is the yeast called a scoby? Is that what it's called?

Truth Seeker's Guide (44:28.361)
I don't know if I'm off there. the little shop of horrors? Feed me, see more. The plant that eats people traumatized children throughout the 80s and 90s. Yes. That's it. Is the yeast called a scoby? Is that what it's called? I think they're a little different. starter? One is a little different. The other one is lactose.

Dr. Nicole Cain (44:45.229)
The starter.

Dr. Nicole Cain (44:53.039)
Yeah, yeah.

Truth Seeker's Guide (44:53.187)
I forgot the name of it, but they're alive. In the sense that I have to grow my starter, is basically just feeding it water and flour, and then you keep it bubbling and alive. And then if you don't feed it in enough time, it will die in the sense that there's no activity, and then it raises kind of like this, almost like an alcohol liquid at the top. And the ginger bug works the same way.

Dr. Nicole Cain (45:16.429)
Yeah. Yeah.

Truth Seeker's Guide (45:23.05)
It just creates.

almost like a carbonation of gas, which is what I used to make my homemade ginger ale sodas as well. That's so cool. And the alcohol byproduct is really interesting. So it's called Otto Brewer syndrome. Have you ever heard of that? No. There's this case of this guy and he has I can't remember the exact details of this case, but they thought he was drunk all the time. They're like, you have an alcohol problem. He's like, I'm not drinking.

Dr. Nicole Cain (45:31.939)
That's so cool. And the alcohol byproduct is really interesting. So it's called auto brewer syndrome. Have you ever heard of that?

There's this case of this guy. he has, I can't remember the exact details of this case, but they thought he was drunk all the time. They're like, you have an alcohol problem. He's like, I'm not drinking. And they're like, you have to be drinking. He would blow in the sobriety test and he had high alcohol. And he's like, I'm not drinking. I'm not drinking. They're like, you're a liar. The proof is in the test. And so what they ended up doing is they put him in an inpatient where he was monitored for 24 hours and then given the test.

Truth Seeker's Guide (45:54.698)
And they're like you have to be drinking he would blow in the sobriety testing at high alcohol Wow, and he's like I'm not drinking I'm not drinking they're like you're liar the proof is in the test and so what they ended up doing is they put him in an inpatient where he was monitored for 24 hours and then given the test again and he still blew positive for alcohol and He hadn't consumed any alcohol. So it turns out that he had auto brewer syndrome where he had yeast that was fermenting in the gut

Dr. Nicole Cain (46:11.236)
again, and he still blew positive for alcohol. And he hadn't consumed any alcohol. So it turns out that he had auto brewer syndrome where he had yeast that was fermenting in the gut and producing an aldehyde byproduct. And then of course, if we're not properly detoxing the aldehyde, which histamine can get broken down into an aldehyde before we methylate and be be one thiamine it out. So we have these chemicals that can literally make us

Truth Seeker's Guide (46:24.64)
and producing an aldehyde byproduct. then of course, if we're not properly detoxing the aldehyde, which histamine can get broken down into an aldehyde before we methylate it and B1 thiamine it out. So we have these chemicals that can literally make us feel confused and drunk. so too much yeast can... This was an extreme Yeah, yeah, of course. was going to say, yeah, that's awesome. He was a yeasty fella. That's interesting. Never heard of that. That's interesting to know.

Dr. Nicole Cain (46:41.256)
confused and drunk and so too much yeast can... this was an extreme case, right? Yeah. He was a yeasty fella. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't need a beer. He had his own.

Truth Seeker's Guide (46:54.793)
He just produced his own alcohol and He didn't need a beer he had his own and Now what are the what role the serotonin and the microbiome play in regulating calm? You know it all began in the 19th well actually

Dr. Nicole Cain (47:12.972)
You know, it all began in the 19th. Well, actually, it began earlier than that. The first neurotransmitter they discovered was in the colon, and it was called enteromene, which turned out to be serotonin. And then in the 60s, someone postulated, like, well, what does serotonin do for the brain? And what if we give more serotonin? What will happen to the brain? And

Truth Seeker's Guide (47:16.707)
It began earlier than that. The first neurotransmitter they discovered was in the colon and it was called enteromene, which turned out to be serotonin. And then in the sixties, someone postulated like, well, what does serotonin do for the brain? And what if we give more serotonin? What will happen to the brain? And then they developed a pharmaceutical, which is Prozac for this. And the whole theory was that more serotonin means more happy unless serotonin

Dr. Nicole Cain (47:37.365)
then they developed a pharmaceutical which is Prozac for this. And the whole theory was that more serotonin means more happy and less serotonin means less happy. And we've by and large functioned from that hypothesis since the 60s. It's 2025. We've had so much research and development that shows there are many other options. And yet as you and I were sharing the beginning of this conversation, we go to our doctors, they give us an antidepressant, right? And that's why it came from that. And then

Truth Seeker's Guide (47:46.641)
means less happy. And we've by and large functioned from that hypothesis since the 60s. It's 2025. We've had so much research and development that shows there are many other options. And yet, as you and I were sharing the beginning of this conversation, we go to our doctors, they give us an antidepressant, right? And that's why it came from that. And then the whole system got thrown upside down. In 2022, there was a giant meta analysis where researchers looked at all of the studies that came out.

Dr. Nicole Cain (48:07.248)
The whole system got thrown upside down in 2022 there was a giant meta analysis where researchers looked at all of the studies that came out saying that the chemical imbalance theory was correct that an imbalance in serotonin was why people had depression and anxiety and it turns out the authors concluded that there was no correlation at all and so suddenly we're all like minds are blown and

Truth Seeker's Guide (48:16.504)
out saying that the chemical imbalance theory was correct, that an imbalance in serotonin was why people had depression and anxiety. And it turns out the authors concluded that there was no correlation at all. okay. And so suddenly, we're all like, minds are blown.

Dr. Nicole Cain (48:35.864)
What an amazing place to be, right? Because now we get to start asking questions again. Why is it that Lexapro is life saving for some people and terrible for others? And why is it that Lexapro doesn't work for some people, but Zoloft works for some people, right? What's going on? It's deeper than serotonin. Now we get to know, well, some antidepressants like Zoloft can decrease inflammation, so it can help immune system anxiety.

Truth Seeker's Guide (48:36.107)
What an amazing place to be, right? Because now we get to start asking questions again. Why is it that Lexapro is life saving for some people and terrible for others? And why is it that Lexapro doesn't work for some people, but Zoloft works for some people, right? What's going on? It's deeper than serotonin. Now we get to know, well, some antidepressants like Zoloft can decrease inflammation, so it can help immune system anxiety.

Dr. Nicole Cain (49:05.512)
And some antidepressants can increase brain derived neurotrophic factor, which we talked about when we were talking about psilocybin. But we can do way better with fewer trade-offs than just stopping with an antidepressant. And the research shows us how. And I write about all of that ad nauseum in my book. We go through all the hormones. We go through all the immune system. We go through all the neurotransmitters because every single person is different. So serotonin could make a big difference for you.

Truth Seeker's Guide (49:05.971)
And some antidepressants can increase brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which we talked about when we were talking about psilocybin.

But we can do way better with fewer trade-offs than just stopping with an antidepressant. And the research shows us how. And I write about all of that ad nauseum in my book. We go through all the hormones, we go through all the immune system, we go through all the neurotransmitters, because every single person is different. So serotonin could make a big difference for you, but likely there's something else at play.

Dr. Nicole Cain (49:35.618)
But likely, there's something else at play.

Truth Seeker's Guide (49:39.91)
That wouldn't, It wouldn't be the root of the problem basically. could help but it might not be the root of the Exactly. because, and I know you mentioned, because I mean anxiety and depression and stuff can stem from the gut, from different parts of the body that can...

Dr. Nicole Cain (49:47.212)
Exactly.

Truth Seeker's Guide (50:00.568)
alter the way we feel and think in our mind, but can it also work the other way around where our mind and thoughts can create the chemical neuroplasticity that will cause more chemical change in the body that will produce that as well? Can it work both ways?

Dr. Nicole Cain (50:16.718)
What a brilliant question. Yes, it's a bi-directional axis. And bi-directional means it's a two-way, the highway goes both directions. 80 % of the communication between the gut and the brain comes from the gut, so the gut has a whole lot more to say. But the brain can make a big difference. And that's why we're able to see, for example, in mindfulness studies and meditation studies.

Truth Seeker's Guide (50:17.062)
What a brilliant question. Yes, it's a bi-directional axis. Okay. Bi-directional means it's a two-way, it's a, the highway goes both directions. Okay. 80 % of the communication between the gut and the brain comes from the gut. So the gut has a whole lot more to say, but the brain can make a big difference. And that's why we're able to see, for example, in mindfulness studies and meditation studies, how people can have improvements in all sorts of metrics, like monks they've studied that they can lower the

Dr. Nicole Cain (50:40.418)
how people can have improvements in all sorts of metrics, like monks they've studied that they can lower their blood sugar, they can lower their blood pressure, they can change heart rate variability just with the power of the mind. So we wanna really do both when we're healing anxiety and panic.

Truth Seeker's Guide (50:47.016)
their blood sugar, they can lower their blood pressure, they can change heart rate variability just with the power of the mind. So we wanna really do both when we're healing anxiety and panic. I say that because we hear a lot of stories with the placebo effect also, you know? And we could see how just believing it could help regulate your body to a point where it just heals you.

Dr. Nicole Cain (51:02.712)
Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Cain (51:11.49)
Yeah, and the nocebo for those who have been told their whole lives, like for me in the beginning, I was told that you can't heal anxiety. And that is a nocebo. A placebo is when we give you nothing and something happens. And a nocebo is when we believe so strongly that we can't get better and therefore...

Truth Seeker's Guide (51:11.822)
Yeah, and the nocebo for those who have been told their whole lives like for me in the beginning I was told that you can't heal anxiety and that is a nocebo and a placebo is when we give you nothing that something happens and a nocebo is when we believe so strongly that we can't get better pretty much is like someone incepting a lie that we believe and make it true Exactly. It's the programming like you used that word earlier Which is a word that I often like to use for this is what is our program?

Dr. Nicole Cain (51:34.369)
Exactly. It's the programming. Like you used that word earlier, which is a word that I often like to use for this is what is our programming and do we need to do an audit of our programming? Do we need to do an audit of our messaging? Cause the body listens to those messages. We wake up every morning with a fresh batch of cells that are like, okay, who are we? How are we going to function? And those first moments, those first thoughts can set the stage for the way that those cells function.

Truth Seeker's Guide (51:41.688)
programming, and do we need to do an audit of our programming? Do need to do an audit of our messaging? Because the body listens to those messages, we wake up every morning with a fresh batch of cells that are like, okay, who are we? How are going to function? And those first moments, those first thoughts can set the stage for the way that those cells function. Interesting. Awesome. And

You often say that panic isn't an enemy but a signal. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Dr. Nicole Cain (52:14.978)
Yeah, it's trying to tell you what needs healing. And so I think of it as our canaries. I think of panic on a continuum where on one end is the green light. And the green light is when you feel calm and relaxed and your body sending those all clear signals. We're happy. We're connected. We feel just calm and good and creative, right? And then when we get a little bit stressed, we shift into the yellow light zone, which is we're getting a little activated. And the body's like, hey.

Truth Seeker's Guide (52:15.237)
Yeah, it's it's trying to tell you what needs healing. And so I think of it as our canaries. I think of panic on a continuum where on one end is the green light and the green lights when you feel calm and relaxed and your body sending those all clear signals, we're happy, we're connected, we feel just calm and good and creative, right? And then when we get a little bit stressed, we shift into the yellow light zone, which is we're getting a little activated and the body's like, Hey, hey, we're a little active.

Dr. Nicole Cain (52:43.81)
hey, we're a little activated. So you might notice your body temperature goes up. Or you might notice your thoughts get a little bit more foggy. And then as that arousal amplifies, we may go into the red light zone, which is panic. And so the panic is like, hey, you weren't hearing me when we whispered, so we're going to shout. We need you to know that we have mold in the house. Or we need you to know that we

Truth Seeker's Guide (52:45.191)
So you might notice your body temperature goes up or you might notice your thoughts get a little bit more foggy and then as that arousal amplifies We may go into the red light zone, which is panic. And so the panic is like hey